Automating game debugging with AI!? We asked Morikatron's Kuwano

This is Umi Fujisawa from Public Relations

we will release Japan's first smartphone game error monitoring service, " Appmill for GAME

Appmill for GAME actually achieves automated monitoring by using Morika Tester, a test automation software developed by Morikatron Co., Ltd.

So, , "What exactly is a Morika Tester?" , we spoke with Mr. Kuwano, Sales Manager at Monobit Morikatron Holdings Co., Ltd., a company that also develops and researches AI!

1. What kind of company is Morikatron?

↑We visited the CECED2019 venue and interviewed him

Fujisawa: Today, I would like to ask Kuwano-san about Morikatron's AI business and game debugging services. Thank you!

Thank you very much, Kuwano-san

Fujisawa : First of all, please tell us roughly what kind of company Morikatron is.

Kuwano-san, Morikatron is currently celebrating its 2nd anniversary. It even says 2nd anniversary on the sweets (laughs).

Fujisawa : You're right! Your cat is so cute! (Illustration by Morikawa)

Kuwano: Initially, we started out as a company specializing in game AI development and consulting

For the AI ​​part, we do contract development and consulting, and also do research and development

Fujisawa : I see, so you started out with the AI ​​business.

Kuwano , the AI ​​in a game can only be used for that game, so when he thought about what area could be useful to people in the industry and be more versatile, he decided to focus on debugging

Fujisawa : Wow! You're trying to create a service that will benefit the gaming industry.

Kuwano: Yes. Regarding AI, Miyake from Square Enix defines it as "external AI and internal AI "internal AI" is original to the company and cannot be shared, but "external AI" is development assistance and debugging, so I spoke with Miyake around CEDEC in August last year about how "we should all share information, conduct research, and improve it."

Fujisawa: I didn't know there was an inside and an outside of AI! So you decided to pursue research into the outside of AI.

Kuwano: We had been preparing to launch a debugging service before that, but the debugging crowd was set up and launched at the end of the year.

The reason why this happened is that even if we say "AI will automate debugging," if you don't understand debugging, you won't know how to incorporate it, and it will end up being half-baked, so we thought, "If we're going to do it, let's do it seriously," and decided to make it a proper business

Mr. Kuwano , we first need to be able to debug properly, so we've started working on improving the quality of manual debugging

2. Why Morikatron was born

Fujisawa: August 2019 will mark the two-year anniversary of Morikatron, but what led to its establishment?

Mr. Kuwano and Mr. Narusawa, the director, produced a game at their previous company, and Mr. Morikawa from the AI ​​department was in charge of illustrations and design. The two of them decided to start an AI game company , and when they wondered who would join the management team, Mr. Honjo, the CEO, joined the company, and that's how the company was founded.

At the time, I was working at another company, and when I suddenly saw the news that an AI company had been established, I wondered, "What will they do?"

Fujisawa : I see. How did you end up joining the company?

Kuwano and Honjo often told me to come, so when I quit my previous job, I remembered that Honjo had mentioned Morikatron, so I called them directly. Joining the company helped me speed things up, so I think it was good in terms of getting involved in the debugging business.

Fujisawa : I see! What kind of debugging services are available?

Kuwano: Generally speaking, we can basically do what other debugging companies can do, such as device verification and tuning services, during pre-release debugging. We are now working on new initiatives such as "automation tools" employing dedicated debugging experts at our "Expert Debugging Lab" in Kyoto

Fujisawa expert! Sounds amazing.

Kuwano: Recently, we've started a localization service and are doing a wide range of things. Right now, we're focusing on debugging, so we're in a phase where we're working steadily without expanding too quickly.

3. AI and Debugging

Kuwano-san is developing an automated tool called Morika Tester, but it is for internal use only. We have prepared several such tools and are conducting various research and development projects.

Fujisawa Morika Tester is also using Appmill for GAME, but has it not yet been released as a service?

Kuwano: Not yet. It's an item that we're using in our own debugging projects to improve efficiency, and we've finally started to see results, so our CEO, Honjo, announced it at CEDEC 2019.

Fujisawa : I see! So Honjo-san is in charge of the debugging part, and Morikawa-san is in charge of the AI ​​part?

Kuwano: The company is basically an AI department and a debugging department , with Morikawa conducting research in the AI ​​department, and the debugging department being set up from scratch.

Fujisawa : So they are separate. How does the AI ​​department proceed with projects?

Kuwano: We not only do contract work for AI, but also research and development. There are some areas where we're not sure whether AI is possible, so it's difficult to work with companies unless they're willing to work together.

Kuwano: For example, there may be times when you need to do something using AI but don't have enough resources or knowledge, and in those cases we will work together as a team.

Fujisawa : Wow! So you'll be joining that company's team!

Kuwano: We work in separate locations, but we're trying to work in a style where we're doing research together as part of the same team. It's called a lab contract, and there's no deliverables, but rather we're lending people, or rather, the whole team. All research results and such will remain, and it's like we're working together to improve. The AI ​​team often takes on projects in this direction.

Fujisawa: Is that so? Are the AI ​​department and the debugging department doing completely different things?

Kuwano: That's right. While the AI ​​department is engaged in projects such as AI lab contracts, they are also actively working on developing automation tools using AI.

4. Debugging will save the gaming industry

Have you heard any comments from people in the Fujisawa , "Thanks to Morikatron, such great things have happened!?"

Kuwano: I'm currently mainly in charge of debugging. Previously, we had a client who used another debugging company, but they were receiving complaints from users and the number of bugs didn't go down even after the product was released.

Fujisawa : Yes, yes.

Kuwano: For customers with such issues, we conduct quality analysis, quantitatively visualize the product's performance, and highlight the issues and risks. By resolving these issues, we can restructure test items, make major changes to the test system, define the test scope, and propose a development schedule that takes into account the balance between QCD. As expected, we have seen costs drop by 30 to 40 percent and defects decrease

Fujisawa Hey!

Kuwano:　 to reduce costs and improve quality at the same time , but we managed to do it and ensure stable operation. Morikatron is a company that really cares about quality. We're quite vocal with the development team. We take a proactive approach, saying things like, "We can't do it unless we have this document on this day." This resonates with customers who have problems , and they're very happy about it.

Fujisawa Morikatron will be joining as a consultant!

Kuwano: Yes, up until now we've just gathered a group of people and let them do it, but now we're digging a little deeper and making proper proposals.

Fujisawa Debugging work on?

Kuwano: We also work on Steam PC games and consoles like the Nintendo Switch. We currently have around 15 clients, and even though we're a newly established company, we're happy when we're included in the game credits.

Fujisawa: That's really great!!

Kuwano : Also, recently there was a "five-company competition" to decide the best debugging company among five other companies, and our company won.

Fujisawa: Is that so?! Amazing!!!

Mr. Kuwano, an engineer, chose it for us. We just do what is natural.

Fujisawa : Wow. First of all, there's such a competition!

Kuwano-san , there was one. I was surprised there were so many (lol).

5. The History of Morika Tester

What was the development process for the Fujisawa

Kuwano: In the gaming industry, automation wasn't very advanced before the advent of AI and the like.

Fujisawa : Oh, is that so?

Kuwano: Manufacturers and other companies with a certain level of financial strength are doing it. For example, SEGA's Yakuza uses automated "high-speed debugging." Two or three years ago, Nintendo used automated tools to debug The Legend of Zelda. Those were the only examples, and there were no examples of "a debugging company doing it." I've always wanted to do it.

Fujisawa Kuwano wanted to do this!

Kuwano : Yes, personally. At my previous company, we had an automation team, but there was a phase where we realized that "game specifications change so much that automation isn't possible."

Fujisawa : Hmm, is that so?

Kuwano: It's hard to find good automation tools, so we decided to make one from scratch

Fujisawa :I see, so if it didn't exist, you decided to make it yourself.

Mr. Kuwano: We have created the tool, but how to actually apply it to projects . We didn't know until we tried it whether it would be easy for the debugging team to use and whether it would actually be effective, so we are putting it into practice in the projects we are currently working on and are already seeing results.

FUJISAWA: So the effects are already being seen! Has this been going on for a year since you joined the company last year?

Kuwano: That's right. In fact, it hasn't even been a year yet. We've been using it in our own operations, and Haraoka-san (CEO of Beyond) has been telling me that he's been making Morika testers for a while, so I asked him if there was anything he could do

Fujisawa : I see! So that's why Beyond's Appmill came up as an idea.

Kuwano-san, that's right!

6. Can Appmill for GAME save the gaming industry?

Appmill for GAME, released by Fujisawa is touted as "Japan's first smartphone game error monitoring service,"

Isn't this the first time since Kuwano-san

Fujisawa : I see, that's good to hear (laughs).

Kuwano: There are automation tools like Eggplant and AirTest, but they aren't really tools, and there aren't any domestically produced ones. There aren't any specifically for games, either.

Fujisawa: this year's Tokyo Game Show . As someone with extensive knowledge of the games industry, what do you think are the appealing aspects of this service?

Mr. Kuwano: I'm not sure what the key point is yet, but Beyond monitors 24 hours a day, 365 days a , right? I think it would be great if the client could monitor that as well

Fujisawa: 24/7 manned monitoring is something only Beyond can do. What kinds of errors does the Morika Tester actually detect during service operation?

Mr. Kuwano, you write the scenarios for Morika Tester beforehand, right? The errors that occur during those transitions are things like the load is too high and it stops, or the server crashes and it stops, or the transition doesn't work as it should, or the characters are wrong, etc.

Fujisawa: When such an error occurs, the Morika Tester discovers it and notifies Appmill for GAME.

Kuwano: That's right. The scenario changes depending on what you want to see, so if you want to run it in different directions, you have to prepare different scenarios. The scenario determines in advance what actions the user will take and then runs automatically.

Kuwano: For example, if the tutorial is followed by a battle and one gacha spin, the game will proceed according to that scenario. If at some point something gets updated and stops working, an alert will sound.

Fujisawa : I see, so if you upgrade, you have to rewrite the scenario as well.

Kuwano-san doesn't have to do it, but if something changes somewhere it will affect somewhere else, so he always checks even the same things. We run the scenario immediately after a version upgrade, and doing this automatically 24 hours a day, 365 days a year saves testers time.

Fujisawa: How long do testers actually spend visually inspecting the product?

Kuwano-san didn't do anything, take the whole day . 3-4 hours. If you just looked through it, it would take about 10 minutes, but you would have to look at it on all devices and double-check it.

Fujisawa : Oh, so you sometimes use it all day? Being able to monitor automatically even during the night will greatly improve work efficiency!

7. Morikatron's vision of the future

↑Morikatron's booth at Tokyo Game Show 2019 (Beyond was next door)

Fujisawa: Finally, how do you want to be involved in the game industry in the future?

Kuwano and Morikawa call Morikatron "AI sommeliers ," but AI is merely a means to an end. Even if we refer to it as a single term, there are many different ways of saying it, such as deep learning or machine learning. If we first know what our goal is and how we can achieve it, then we can say, "How about this?" Even if we don't currently have the technology, we can say, "Maybe you can do it if you use this." We can approach things this way, and we plan to continue doing so.

Fujisawa AI's sommelier is so cool...!!

Mr. Kuwano : Speaking of testing, isn't Japan currently experiencing a declining birthrate? The number of testers is decreasing.

Fujisawa: So it's decreasing... That's dangerous for the game industry.

Mr. Kuwano: Debugging companies need to hire a lot of people, but the number is decreasing. Minimum wages are rising, so costs are increasing. All of this is being passed on to manufacturers. In short, the number of things to test is increasing, but the number of people to test them is decreasing.

Fujisawa Game titles is steadily increasing...

Kuwano: The types of games have changed from the click-and-click type to Fortnite and Knives Out, and kids today think it's normal to play them at full speed, so I think the next games that come out will be more complex and there will be a lot more things that need to be done. Even Zelda said that debugging couldn't be completed without automation. If you don't do it, you'll be in trouble. Manufacturers have been using automation in various ways for years, but no debugging companies are doing it.

Fujisawa

Kuwano: Because the value of this product lies in getting people to work, if we automate it and reduce the number of people, sales will decrease.

Fujisawa: That's true...!

Mr. Kuwano: The idea of ​​automating things doesn't even occur to me. We're doing it because we think, "But even so, there will be no people left." (laughs)

Fujisawa : You're right (laughs).

Kuwano-san said that it would get dangerous eventually, so by researching it now , when that phase comes, we'll be able to hand over the automation tools.

He is conducting his research by reading the trends of the Fujisawa

Kuwano: This is hypothetical, but that's what I'm aiming for.

Fujisawa's population is definitely decreasing...

Kuwano : Yes, it will definitely decrease.

Kuwano-san , in the future, I automate things and use AI to operate things automatically , even though I don't know how long it will take. As a step to get there, I would like to automate things and create tools.

Fujisawa: Will using AI become commonplace?

Kuwano: If in the end you realize that you could have done it without using AI technology, that you could have improved efficiency just by using tools, then that's fine. You it's faster to have people do it on AI. That's why we're creating an expert debugging team in Kyoto. We have people who create three times as many bugs as humans, so it's definitely faster to have skilled people do it than to have a machine rewrite it every time.

Fujisawa Expert Debuggers are people with those kinds of skills!

Mr. Kuwano , there are some amazing people out there, people who are called God Debuggers

Fujisawa huh!

Mr. Kuwano finds three times as many as other people. I was like, "Wow, you found something like this!"

Fujisawa: What kind of thought process is that?

Kuwano-san has the ability, or maybe intuition...or maybe it's just a sense? He thinks a little differently than other people. Like, "Maybe I should attack this spot."

Fujisawa is so interesting! It makes me want to visit the lab in Kyoto too.

Kuwano-san , if that's how it is, isn't it great if humans are the strongest?

Fujisawa : Yes, I agree.

Mr. Kuwano: Wouldn't it be great if machines could learn from the knowledge and experience of debuggers ?

Fujisawa: I'm looking forward to seeing how Morikatron will perform as an AI sommelier in the future. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us today!

summary

I feel that there is an infinite amount of possibilities for Morikatron and Beyond to use AI to present to the world in the future. The newly released Appmill for GAME is one of them, and I hope it will be useful to many more people! I look forward to seeing the future progress of Morikatron, a savior of the gaming industry engineers on-site monitoring 24 hours a day, 365 days a year !

Appmill for GAME service page