[Cloud migration is definitely a good idea] Mynet x Beyond engineer conversation
My name is Fujisawa and I am in charge of public relations and recruitment
This time,featuring a dialogue between our customers and our engineers!
, a company we've been working with since 2018 for cloud/server operation, maintenance, and relocation servicesMynet Co., Ltd.Our infrastructure engineers had a discussion with
acquiring games from manufacturers and operating them long-term using its unique expertisea "game service business"that involvesserver operation and maintenance, as well ascloud migrationis responsible for
"Why did Mynet choose Beyond?" and "Honestly, what do you think of Beyond's operation?"We delved into topics ranging from the project itself to communication between the two companies, including questions like,
We usually communicate with Mynet via chat, so this was the first time some of the engineers met face-to-face online, and we'll be sharing the friendly conversation that took place throughout
profile
Mynet Inc
・Noritake Aizawa, Engineering Group, Technology Management Department
He is in charge of solving MyNet's engineering problems, and is also involved in the migration to the cloud. He is the biggest drinker of the three
- Takuya Igari, Engineering Group, Technology Management Department
After working in the engineering group, he built the company's common infrastructure and experienced two server relocations. He is the most aggressive of the three
- Hiroki Horikoshi, Engineering Group Manager, Technology Management Department
His main job is progress management, but he also frequently gets involved in the construction site. He is a former infrastructure engineer and the oldest of the three
Beyond Co., Ltd
Junichiro Okazaki, Section Chief, System Solutions Department
I have been involved in Mynet's relocation from the beginning, and have had the opportunity to make suggestions and learn a lot
Yuta Kanbara, System Solutions Department Manager
I have been involved in Mynet's relocation project since March 2020. I have met Horikoshi-san online twice, but this was my first time meeting Aizawa-san and Igari-san
Shinji Nakauchi, Head of Technical Sales Department, Sales Representative for Mynet Co., Ltd.
・Kai Fujisawa, Public Relations and Recruitment Officer, interviewer for this session.
What is cloud relocation?
Beyond Fujisawa:Today we'll be asking you about cloud/server migration and operation, so thank you in advance. First, could you tell us what process Mynet follows when undertaking a cloud migration project?
Aizawa from Mynet:To explain the process of the relocation itself, basically we acquire the games created by the manufacturers through purchase, and after the transfer of operations is complete, we proceed with the cloud migration. If we don't know anything about the cloud configuration, we won't know if it's even possible to operate it, so before acquiring it, we interview the manufacturers to find out what kind of technology they are using. We are not given very detailed configurations before the contract is signed, so we estimate the server configuration and other things to some extent from the limited information we have, and then we consider the feasibility and cost of cloud migration.
After that, we will purchase the system and you will receive your cloud account for the first time. We will check whether the expected server configuration is correct, and if there are any discrepancies, we will adjust the feasibility study and ultimately make a forecast that you can migrate with this configuration
It's around this time that we consult with Beyond, asking questions like, "Can we move?" After about a month or two has passed and the project has settled down to a certain extent, we present our engineering group's recommendation, saying, "With this cloud, it will cost about this much and you can do this," and then the project team makes a decision. Once they have made the decision, we are ready to place an order, so we tell the cloud vendor, "We'll go with this cloud," and inform Beyond, "We'll move to this cloud and start at this time."
From there, Beyond will investigate the server configuration and will carry out the relocation and switchover based on the schedule in approximately two months
The deciding factor for introducing Beyond
Beyond Fujisawa:Could you tell us what initially led you to request a project from our company?
Aizawa from Mynet:We first requested a migration project to Beyond about three years ago (around 2018). The reason we asked them was that a cloud vendor we were working with at the time introduced us to Mr. Nakauchi from Beyond's sales department, and that's how we first met and introduced ourselves.
In 2017, the secondary business of social games was not very well known, so it was very difficult to explain our business model. At the time, we were talking to various sales representatives about MSPs and cloud services for relocation, but we couldn't properly explain ourbusiness model, which was "not about the game developers themselves, but about taking over titles that the developers have created and are operating, and generating profits with the goal of long-term operation."As a result, we weren't getting proposals that suited our needs.
However, about a week after we spoke with Nakauchi, Beyond sent us a proposal that matched exactly what we were looking for. At the time, Horikoshi and I were excited about it (laughs)
Beyond came to us with a proposal after understanding where we found value, which led to our decision to adopt the service
Mynet's Horikoshi:I was just looking through the chat logs, and it turns out the first project started 2 years and 8 months ago, in November 2018. At that time, I was talking about the future and said, "Please create a chat group each time the number of titles increases," and Nakauchi said, "I'll do my best to create groups!" And when I counted, there were 19 groups, including the ones that have now been closed.
Beyond Nakauchi:That's an incredible number.
Mynet's Horikoshi:That's half of our titles.
Aizawa from Mynet:That's right, considering the pace, we ask them to do it once every two or three months.
Beyond Nakauchi:I appreciate it.
Effects of introducing Beyond
Beyond Fujisawa:Have you noticed any changes since you started entrusting projects to our company?
Aizawa from Mynet:Before we officially started working with Beyond, we didn't have that many projects where we outsourced operations to an MSP. What I've noticed as a clear difference since we started entrusting operations to Beyond is that theemergency responseandpsychological burdenhas decreased considerably.
When dealing with problems outside of business hours, engineers tend to work alone, but when they do, even a simple problem can take up a lot of time if they make a mistake in their initial investigation. Since we can ask Beyond to handle some of the initial investigations, I feel like it's become easier for engineers to focus on the project
Mynet's Igari-san:Speaking from a personal perspective, I think my own infrastructure skills have improved since working with you. Before, I had only built one simple infrastructure within the company, and I only knew about major things like AWS EC2, S3, and CloudFront, but I learned a lot about infrastructure while working with Beyond on the migration.
The thing that left the biggest impression on me was the migration between clouds. Mr. Okazaki had previously taught me how to migrate database dump files and files stored on the server, which allowed me to create a test environment for the subsequent migration. He has been extremely helpful in that regard, and I use his advice as a reference. I'd also like to thank him for teaching me how to set up swap
Beyond Okazaki:No, no, the pleasure is all mine.
Mynet's Igari:Also,terms of morale. In a previous migration project, there were still some bugs remaining on the project side, and we were debating whether to proceed with the migration as is or revert to the previously working server and make adjustments. Personally, I wrote in the chat that I wanted to do it no matter what if it meant dying to do it, and Okazaki responded by saying, "I'm not defeated in terms of spirit, so please let me do whatever I can." I felt that morale was greatly boosted in moments like that, and I think that kind of influence is also significant.
Aizawa from Mynet:That's a great story!
Mynet's Horikoshi:Speaking from an internal company perspective, the reaction that Igari received was similar to what others experienced. Originally, many server engineers had never touched infrastructure before, and there was a strong impression that "infrastructure is something scary." Even people who write code felt that way, so people in other industries also thought "servers are scary." But as we worked with Beyond, the barriers gradually lowered, and we started to see things like "this is how you solve problems" and "this is how you build things," and I feel that the hurdle to touching infrastructure within the company has been significantly reduced.
Beyond Okazaki:Lately, as we've been working on various things, I've been wondering if it's really okay for Mynet to do so much for us. We provide our infrastructure knowledge, but I also feel a bit guilty about having them do so much for us.
Mynet Horikoshi:Well, compared to a while ago, there are more people who use the "TO" tag when chatting with Oka-chan (Okazaki) or Kanhara-san, right? I think that's a really interesting effect. I think they're also feeling their way through it, wondering things like, "How far can I rely on them?" or "Will Nakauchi-san get mad if I tell him?"
Beyond Okazaki:You can listen to me as much as you want!
Beyond Fujisawa:Has the way the two companies communicate changed between the initial stages and now?
Aizawa from Mynet:There hasn't been much change, in a good way. I guess the amount of grass* that grows when I'm in a lighthearted mood has increased.
* Grass = w
Mynet Horikoshi:I'm happy that Okachan has started to use the "lol" emoji.
Beyond Okazaki:If it's grass, I'll grow it lol
Beyond Nakauchi:I think Mynet is probably the only company where I've had chats with customers that go so overboard with the jokes.
Mynet Horikoshi: Relationships change, and I think it's really good to get to know each other's sense of distance. It's annoying to have to start every single conversation with "Thank you for your continued support."
Aizawa from Mynet:It also leads to smoother communication. If we can even slightly break the "Please wait a moment while I check" rule.
How is Beyond actually handling the relocation and operation?
Beyond Fujisawa:Are there any aspects of working with Beyond that make you think, "It's really easy to work with them"?
Aizawa from Mynet:Beyond basically never hesitates to take on requests. They don't create sacred cows in their work, and even if what we ask of them is inefficient, they're basically willing to help. They'll explain things like, "Based on our research, this is what we found, so let's do it this way," but they also have the understanding that they'll do things even if they're not particularly good at them, and they help us figure out how to do it, so we feel a sense of unity and it's easy to work with them.
Mynet's Horikoshi:one of the important elements of being an engineerto say "I don't know" when you don't know something. If you say "I don't know, but it's okay," you're bound to run into problems. But if both sides know what they don't know, then you can plan a course of action, like "Let's do this, let's do that" to help each other understand. So, it's very helpful when people say they don't know something. I'm sure you've had that experience, Kambara-kun.
Beyond Kanhara:Well, to be honest, I had absolutely no idea what it was about.
Mynet Horikoshi:Well, of course. Even after decades of doing this, there are still things I don't know, and no one knows everything. But even things you don't know or haven't done before, you learn them and you accomplish them, so I think that's where you should focus your efforts.
Beyond Okazaki:I'm also usually full of things I don't understand. I don't understand everything, but I try to research the parts I do understand a little bit. Mr. Horikoshi and Mr. Igari teach me things I don't know, which helps me get to the point.
Mynet's Horikoshi:Even if we both say we don't understand something, it doesn't necessarily mean we don't understand the same thing. It's really good to teach each other what you do know.
Aizawa from Mynet:Relocating is a good idea, isn't it? That was a rather vague way of putting it, though.
As with any relocation project, there comes a time when you have to step into the black box that has been created through operation. By actually relocating and encountering problems, we were able to gradually understand the system through various exchanges, and Beyond has been extremely helpful to us. Thank you very much
Beyond Okazaki:Thank you very much.
Mynet's Horikoshi:I still check the outage alert notifications even on my days off, but just having to watch them is so much easier. In the past, I had to turn on my PC, log into the server, check the situation, take action, and then wait a while for it to be restored, which meant sacrificing about an hour of my own time. Now, when an alert sounds, I check to see that Beyond has started taking action, and I think it's probably okay, so I check again 15 minutes later and there's a recovery report saying "Resolution complete." It's just so wonderful! It's the best.
Beyond Fujisawa:Do you have any requests for Beyond's Okazaki or Kanhara, such as "I wish they would do this more!"?
Aizawa from Mynet:They've already been proactively working on various things... Maybe they'd like us to add more grass (referring to the website/platform)?
Beyond Okazaki:I can grow grass just fine, though lol
Mynet's Igari:I don't see any downsides either. In a migration project, we had Beyond investigate the directories to be migrated on the servers, but at the time there was a server that was shut down during the night, and the investigation revealed that that server was "not a target for migration." I think Okazaki must have investigated it while people were sleeping. I was always worried about whether that was okay.
Beyond Okazaki:During the daytime there were various operations and things to do, so when I happened to be checking at night I thought, "Hey, this isn't running." I'm the type of person who likes to get everything done when I'm in the mood.
Mynet Horikoshi:I think Oka-chan should be more critical of our methods. We sometimes make inefficient requests, and even when I think about stepping in to stop them, Okazaki always replies, "We'll do it that way." You should say that. "There's a better way, let's do it this way." I don't think they know about it. So I think you shouldn't hold back there. Actually, Kanhara is stronger in that regard. Kanhara is quite outspoken. He'll ask, "What do you think of this?" I really like that.
Beyond Nakauchi:That's the kid from today.
Aizawa from Mynet:Kambara-san always includes all the necessary documents, so even first-time viewers can easily understand it and think, "Wow!" You can see why he's making these suggestions. I always think it's really great when I see the chat.
Mynet's Horikoshi: In business, there are always clients and contractors, but I think of our relationship with Beyond as a partnership. Take a rest on your days off.
Beyond Kanhara:I've been involved with Mynet's projects for a long time, so I've become quite attached to them. Even on my days off, I find myself constantly wondering, "Have any alerts gone off?"
Regarding future relationships
Beyond Fujisawa:What kind of relationship do you hope to build between Mynet and Beyond in the future?
Mynet's Horikoshi: We want to gradually eliminate relationships that are based on specific individuals. The current situation is good, but it's also dependent on specific people. If one person leaves, something is missing, right? We want to gradually eliminate this dependence on specific people so that things don't stagnate even if someone is absent.
Beyond Nakauchi:It will be after the pandemic is over, but we'd like to have more opportunities for engineers to interact with each other.
Mynet's Horikoshi:There are bound to be times when Okazaki-san appears to be handling things on the chat, but in reality, someone else was actually handling it. It would be interesting to see that kind of thing.
Beyond Fujisawa:By the way, what aspects of working with Mynet do you find easiest from Beyond's perspective?
Beyond Kanhara:There are too many...
Beyond Okazaki:It's really easy to work with.
Beyond Kanhara:When we receive a request, Mynet often thinks about it together with us and works on it, right? I think, "What great people they are!"
Beyond Okazaki:They take our proposals into consideration and even help us look into the infrastructure, which we really appreciate. We're learning a lot from them, so it's very helpful.
Aizawa from Mynet:When we're working together on troubleshooting and problem solving, I think we're both able to perform at our best. I really like this situation, and I think it's anextremely productive activity. I think there will be many more situations like this through relocation and operation in the future, so if we can solve them together, it will be beneficial for me as well, and if I can give something to Beyond, that would be wonderful, so I want to continue doing this.
Mynet's Igari-san:When problems arise, Beyond-san really works with us to investigate them, so I hope we can continue to improve each other's technical skills. Also, I hope we can establish a relationship where Mynet properly shares information with Beyond-san so that we can both understand the situation regarding the relocation and operation.
Mynet's Horikoshi:They both seem so mature. I'm more materialistic, and I don't want to lose to them. Not to Oka-chan or Kambara-san. When we hit a problem, they come up with amazing ideas, right? I want to be the first to solve it. People might think, "Wow, Horikoshi knows even this much," but actually, I'm just doing my own research behind the scenes, thinking, "Wow, that's incredible." I think engineers have that kind of "I don't want to lose" feeling.
Mynet's Igari:Yes, I think so. Yeah.
Beyond Okazaki:Yes, I do. I'd like to have a relationship where we can help each other grow.
Beyond Nakauchi:I'm truly grateful for being treated as a partner to this extent. The engineers involved with Mynet are constantly improving their technical skills, and I can see that even from a sales perspective. I hope this relationship continues for a long time.
Finally, a word from Beyond
Beyond Okazaki:We are incredibly grateful to Mynet every day. We want to do everything we can to help, so please feel free to contact us anytime if you need anything. We look forward to your continued support.
Beyond Kambara:Compared to Okazaki, I still have a lot of experience as an infrastructure engineer, and I feel like I'm causing a lot of trouble for Mynet. But I enjoy every project I work on, and I feel like I'm growing by working on a service together. I look forward to working with you in the future.
A word from Mynet
Aizawa-san from Mynet:I really appreciate the positive atmosphere we have, even when things are difficult, so I would be very grateful if we could continue our relationship. Thank you as always.
Mynet's Igari:I think there will be times in the future when we need to cooperate with each other, so I apologize in advance for any inconvenience I may cause, and I appreciate your continued support.
Mynet's Horikoshi:Let's go out for drinks once the pandemic is over.
A mutually beneficial relationship
Through the cloud migration, my knowledge of the infrastructure between the two companies has increased and I have grown as an engineer, so I feel that Mynet and Beyond have built the best relationship as business partners
We hope to continue supporting the operation of the game through relocations and operations, while also working together to improve our technical capabilities. Thank you to Mr. Horikoshi, Mr. Aizawa, and Mr. Igari from Mynet for speaking with us today!
Incidentally, an article featuring an interview with Mynet Horikoshi and our Okazaki and Nakauchi about cloud migration, which took place in 2020,"AUTOMATON,"was published in
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